段永平采访-价值投资篇下
# Q54: 在嘈杂的市场中,怎么保持内心的宁静?(How to stay calm in a noisy market?)
段永平:
《清静经》上说“人能常清静,天地悉皆归”,一个人能够常清静,天地的力量会回到你生命上来,平常心就是这里清净的意思。只有平常心才能本分。“本分”,就是要回归或者找到一种心态,在这种心态下往往能做正确的事情。有个博友曾经有个名字叫“守正出奇”,我说我不喜欢这个名字,因为守正出奇的人,其实都是整天在想着出奇的。我说,要守正不出奇。不整天想着出奇,犯错机会会下降,不小心出个奇,反而成为可能。如果你赚的是本分钱,你会睡得好。身体好会活的长,最后还是会赚到很多钱的。最重要的是,不本分赚钱的人,其实不快乐。本分就是要做对的事情和要把事情做对,不本分的事不做。平常心就是回到事物本源的心态,努力认清什么是对的事情,认清事物的本质。假以时日,本分的力量是厉害的。倒过来想,不本分的话,可以查查过去30年破产的公司都是什么原因。
Duan Yongping:
The Qingjing Jing says, "A person who remains calm will find the universe returning to them." Calmness brings clarity. Only with this "normal heart" can one stay principled. Principled means returning to a mindset where doing right comes naturally. Someone once called himself "Defend virtue and seek surprises," but I dislike that — those who chase surprises often think only about surprises. I say: Stay principled, not opportunistic. Not obsessing over surprises reduces mistakes, and occasional breakthroughs become possible. If you earn money honestly, you’ll sleep well. Health brings longevity, which leads to wealth. Most importantly, the unprincipled rarely feel joy. Principled action means doing right things and doing them right — avoid unprincipled actions. A normal heart means returning to fundamentals, striving to identify right actions and truth. Over time, principled actions compound powerfully. Reflect on the past 30 years — failed companies often fell due to unprincipled decisions.
# Q55: 换句话说,本分是成功企业能成功的重要原因?(Is “principled action” the key to successful businesses?)
段永平:
有人问过芒格,如果只能用一个词来形容他们的成功?他的回答是:“rationality”(理性),有点像我们说的平常心。平常心就是在任何时候,尤其是在有诱惑的时候,能排除所有外界干扰,回到事物的本质或者说原点,辨别是非对错,知道什么是对的事情。一般来讲,聪明人知道如何把事情做对,但有智慧指的是要做对的事情。往回看几十年,你会看到,很多很“聪明”的“聪明人”成就很小,原因可能在于,他们没把聪明放在做对的事情上。
Duan Yongping:
Charlie Munger was once asked to name one word for Berkshire’s success. He said "rationality" — similar to our "normal heart." A normal heart means filtering out distractions, especially temptation, to focus on fundamentals and distinguish right from wrong. Smart people know how to execute, but wisdom lies in choosing the right path. Looking back, many so-called "smart" people achieved little because they misapplied their intelligence — they focused on execution, not purpose.
# Q56: 知易行难,要做到不容易。(Knowing is easy; doing is hard. How to bridge the gap?)
段永平:
至少你要有用闲钱的态度,才可能有平常心,不然真会睡不着觉。我从来都是用闲钱的。把投资看成“种田”的人心态会好很多,因为他们大致知道自己在干嘛,虽然也有天气不太好的时候。我认为,一个人认为自己可以战胜指数的时候,他可能已经失去平常心了。好的价值投资者心中是不去比的。但结果往往会,好的价值投资者会最后战胜指数。在每个时点上,“持有”都等于“买入”。
Duan Yongping:
You need to treat investments as "idle money" — only then can you stay calm. I only use surplus funds. Those viewing investing like farming have better mindsets — they understand their actions, even if harvests vary. If you believe you can beat the market, you’ve already lost your calm. Great value investors avoid comparisons, yet they often outperform in the end. At every moment, holding equals buying — opportunity cost defines this. Many struggle with this paradox.
# Q57: 国内外大众投资者对投资的认知,有什么差别?(What’s the difference between global and Chinese retail investors?)
段永平:
我在美国见过很多的普通投资者,他们对价值投资的理解都非常深刻。回国后,我跟大家聊的时候,哪怕是已经做得很大很有名的人,聊起来都会让我哭笑不得。比如,他会找到一些“短线巴菲特”,这很搞笑,因为巴菲特意味着不能短线。我举个例子,我回报最快的是2个小时赚了50倍,去赌场赚的,这不叫投资,这叫赌博。很多“购买并持有”的人,实际上也是投机分子,因为他们其实不知道自己买的是什么,买了以后需要整天问别人怎么看,在被套时就拿出“长期投资”来安慰自己。要知道,没什么比买错股票并长期持有伤害更大的了。
Duan Yongping:
In the U.S., retail investors deeply understand value investing. Back home, even seasoned investors sometimes make me laugh. For example, they cite "short-term Buffett" — absurd, since Buffett rejects short-termism. My fastest return was 50x in 2 hours — at a casino. That’s gambling, not investing. Many "buy-and-hold" investors are speculators — they don’t understand their holdings and cling to long-term excuses when losing money. Nothing harms more than holding a wrong stock forever.
# Q58: 持有和买入是否是一样的?(Is holding equal to buying?)
段永平:
这是个非常普遍、但又非常有意义的问题。这个问题最终不会困扰真正的“价值投资者”,想不通这个问题的,都还不算“价值投资者”。老巴在讲when to sell a business的时候,讲得蛮清楚了,但大家不要希望看一遍就能真的看明白。我认为,这个东西没有标准答案,但用“buy to keep”和"buy to sell"来区别,是个非常好的说法。事实上,“持有”在每个时点确实是等于“买入”的,机会成本就是这个意思!然而,如果投资者真的那么想,很容易掉到每时每刻都在想“是不是高估了”,过多注意市场而不是focus在生意本身上。投资的本质在于生意本身,对市场的关注越高,投机的成分越高。所谓的“价值投资者”,应该可以完全不在乎某公司现在及未来是不是上市公司而决定买卖该公司的。在我自己能懂的公司范围内,目前还没有哪家公司可以吸引我用苹果去换的。从持有等于买入的角度看,实际上我每天都在买入苹果。理论上讲,持有=买入,这不是一个观点而是一个事实,如果人们没有持有一家非上市公司的心态,每时每刻都会有卖出冲动的。如果你还有“坚持”的感觉,你就还不是一个“价值投资者”。
Duan Yongping:
This is common yet profound. True value investors aren’t troubled by it. Buffett explained selling businesses clearly, though understanding takes years. No standard answer exists, but Munger’s distinction between "buy to keep" and "buy to sell" helps. Holding equals buying — opportunity cost defines this. Overthinking market prices (not fundamentals) turns investing into speculation. Value investors care nothing about a company’s public status. Among stocks I understand, none tempt me to swap for Apple. By this logic, I’m buying Apple daily. Theoretically, holding = buying — not a view, but a fact. Without the mindset of owning a private business, you’ll panic-sell constantly. If "holding" feels like "perseverance," you’re not a value investor yet.
# Q59: 能“拿住”股票的6个要素(Six keys to holding stocks calmly)
段永平:
学会选对和拿住这两门课,再加上一点小小的运气,在股市上赚钱就没有那么难了。不过,人性确实让第二条更难一些。因此我以为,你要拿出至少一半精力去搞懂老巴讲的第二门课程(注:巴菲特说,投资需要掌握两门课,一是如何对企业估值,二是如何应对市场波动)。搞懂了,拿住,就不难了。个人体会,能“拿住”的几个要素:1. 没有过高的期望回报;2. 对股市运行规律有一定了解;3. 盯住比赛,而不是记分牌;4. 尽量让自己远离市场;5. 将评估投资回报的时间调整为5年以上;6. 并不觉得自己比别人更聪明。
Duan Yongping:
Mastering "choosing right" and "holding tight" with luck makes investing easy. But human nature makes holding harder. Spend half your effort understanding Buffett’s two lessons (valuation and market psychology). Here are six keys to holding: 1. No unrealistic return expectations; 2. Understand market cycles; 3. Focus on business, not price charts; 4. Avoid checking prices daily; 5. Use 5+ year horizons; 6. Assume you’re not smarter than others.
# Q60: 有人开玩笑说,选对公司后封仓10年?(“Lock away stocks for 10 years” — your thoughts?)
段永平:
封仓10年是个很好的思路,选股时就该这么想。但我不知道我会不会持有苹果10年或以上。价格合理的股票不一定非买不可。我的观点是只有价格不太合理的时候才是机会。有时候可能会等得很难受,尤其是大牛市的时候。Buffett说过,最难的事是什么都不做。他都觉得难,我们觉得难也很正常。
Duan Yongping:
This is wise — select stocks as if you’ll hold forever. I don’t know if I’ll keep Apple for 10+ years. Fair prices aren’t always worth buying — opportunities arise only when prices are clearly unreasonable. Waiting is tough, especially during bull markets. Buffett said “doing nothing” is hardest — if even he struggles, our frustration is normal.
# Q61: 你设定预期回报吗?(Do you set expected returns?)
段永平:
第一,我不预设回报预期,因为投资回报和预期无关。我对投资的认识是,过程比结果重要。第二,长期跑赢银行存款是基本要求;第三,从保值角度看,长期回报至少跑赢国债利率(约10%)就很理想。很多人对15%+回报不屑一顾,似乎一出手就要5-10倍。对我而言,每年都是平常年景。
Duan Yongping:
I never set return targets — process matters more than outcome. Long-term, beating bank deposits is basic; 10%+ beats inflation — ideal. Many dismiss 15%+ as slow, chasing 5-10x returns. For me, every year is "normal."
# Q62: 预期回报率跟资金规模有关吗?(Does fund size affect returns?)
段永平:
大资金年回报率难高(如伯克希尔),小资金有机会高(如朋友40%-50%)。但别以为第一天赚钱的人比巴菲特强。投资开始越早越好,但记住:“慢慢地变富”。
Duan Yongping:
Large funds (e.g., Berkshire) can’t expect sky-high returns. Small ones might hit 40%-50%, but don’t assume early gains beat Buffett. Start early, but embrace “getting rich slowly.”
# Q63: 投资中最困难的时刻是什么?(When do you find investing hardest?)
段永平:
满仓时我知道怎么办,但空仓时不知所措。巴菲特也说过,最难的是手里有钱却找不到投资标的。这是投资最艰难的时刻。
Duan Yongping:
When fully invested, decisions are easy. Empty pockets trouble me — Buffett called waiting the hardest part. This is the real test.
# Q64: 手头有现金又找不到好股票怎么办?(Cash but no good investments?)
段永平:
我会着急,但着急时尽量不做决策。决策要理性。价值投资者像逛商场,不为花钱而花钱。我的建议是:慢就是快。
Duan Yongping:
I feel urgency but avoid impulsive decisions. Value investors shop like ordinary shoppers — no pressure to spend. My advice: Slow is fast.
# Q65: 是否要一直留有现金?(Should you always keep cash reserves?)
段永平:
老巴持现和生意模式有关。如果有好公司好价钱,何必留现金?看到苹果合适时,我找不到持现理由。投资越早越好,但要记住:慢慢地变富。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett holds cash due to his business model. If you find a great company at a fair price, why hold cash? When Apple fit, I had no reason to wait. Start early, but heed Buffett’s: "Slowly get rich."
# Q66: 要集中在少数能看懂的公司上。(Should you concentrate investments?)
段永平:
我真正投资过的公司最多五六家,目前持有三家左右。我不怕集中,我是绝对的集中。巴菲特的哈撒韦市值千亿,也才投十来家。他一生多次集中,甚至100%押注。赚钱不需要多目标。
Duan Yongping:
I’ve owned 5-6 companies total, now hold 3. I’m not just concentrated — absolutely concentrated. Buffett’s Berkshire holds ~10 stocks. He concentrated to 100% — profits need few ideas.
# Q67: 你怎么给企业估值?(How do you value companies?)
段永平:
估值是毛估估的,不是计算器算出来的。宁要模糊的精确,也不要精确的模糊。买股票时,我只问:这个价格,5-10年能否让我安心?未来的现金流折现值不值这个价?我不看市场给什么价,而是假设它是非上市公司,比较10-20年回报。
Duan Yongping:
Value investing uses "roughly accurate" judgments, not calculator math. I ask: Will this price let me sleep for 5-10 years? What’s the present value of future cash flows? I ignore market prices — imagine it’s private equity, compare 10-20 year returns.
# Q68: 好公司股价贵怎么办?(What if good companies look expensive?)
段永平:
找到好公司比什么都重要。危机时好公司往往化“危”为“机”。我常买有问题的好公司,只要问题不致命。贵不贵要用5-10年眼光看,现金流恶化的公司即使赚账面利润也很危险。
Duan Yongping:
Finding great companies is everything. In crises, great companies turn danger into opportunity. I buy troubled great companies if issues aren’t fatal. Judge "expensive" with 5-10 year lenses — companies with declining cash flow, despite profits, are risky.
# Q69: 用现金流贴现公式吗?(Do you use DCF?)
段永平:
宁要模糊的精确,也不要精确的模糊。未来现金流折现是思维方式,不是算术。比如姚明走进来,你不需要量身高就知道他很高。用我这身高价格买他那身高,我就买,不需要具体数字。
Duan Yongping:
Prefer *"roughly right" over precise confusion. DCF is a mindset, not math. If Yao Ming walks in, you know he’s tall without measuring. Buy stocks where price < value, no need for exact numbers.
# Q70: 你更多做定性还是定量分析?(Qualitative vs. quantitative?)
段永平:
我用定性分析多,这是我和华尔街的区别。定性分析有不确定性,但正是这种模糊,让多数人不敢下注。
Duan Yongping:
I focus on qualitative analysis — my edge over Wall Street. Qualitative uncertainty makes most hesitant, even when confident.
# Q71: 你怎么做定量分析?(How do you use quantitative analysis?)
段永平:
比如净资产100亿、年赚10亿的公司,按5%长期利率计算,大概值200亿(10亿/5% = 200亿),再打6折。越没把握的公司,折扣要越狠 — 这就是安全边际。
Duan Yongping:
For a $10B net asset company earning $1B/year, 5% interest implies $20B value. Apply 40% discount = $12B. The less certain you are, the bigger the discount — margin of safety.
# Q72: 多大的折扣算安全边际?(How much discount counts as margin of safety?)
段永平:
巴菲特的“安全边际”实际指对公司理解的深度,而非单纯价格。从10年的角度看,买贵30%其实影响不大。若你无法看懂5-10年,就不该碰。PE是历史数据,不能单靠它推测未来。通用汽车PE长期5倍仍破产,因高负债。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett’s margin of safety means understanding depth, not price alone. Over 10 years, paying 30% above lows matters little. Don’t invest if you can’t see 5-10 years ahead. PE is history — GM had 5x PE but failed due to debt.
# Q73: 贵和便宜的标准是什么?(What defines expensive/cheap?)
段永平:
我只有一个标准:自己觉得便宜才买。我买低估50%以上的公司。比如GE值20元,我15元开始买,10元重仓。重仓买到便宜股票需要运气。
Duan Yongping:
My only rule: Buy when I feel cheap. I target 50%+ undervalued companies. For GE, I started at $15/share, bought heavily below $10. Cheap stocks require luck.
# Q74: 真正的投资者是“目中无人”的(True investors are indifferent to others)
段永平:
真正的投资者只管公司价值,不管别人怎么看。巴菲特买的高盛和GE债券,是10%利润加期权,非常理想。抄底是投机,价值投资者只管足够便宜时出手。被套后装“长期投资”是自欺欺人。巴菲特被花旗套过吗?没有。我问过巴菲特,如果买的股票涨了怎么办?他说,如果股票上涨时仍有资金,他会继续买,但一旦涨上去,就买不到更多了。他甚至认为,买到底部是糟糕的事 — 因为股价上涨时,你买不到最多的量。真正的投资者,在价值波动范围内一路下跌一路买,才能拿到最便宜的筹码。
Duan Yongping:
True investors ignore others’ opinions. Buffett’s Goldman Sachs and GE bonds (10% profit + options) were ideal. Bottom-fishing is speculation — value investors act only when prices are absurdly cheap. Holding losers and claiming "long-term" is self-deception. Did Buffett ever get stuck on Citibank? No. I asked him: What if a stock rises after buying? He said he’d buy more if funds remain, but once prices rise, no more shares. Oddly, buying at the bottom is bad — you buy too little. Real investors accumulate cheap shares as prices fall, not panic at volatility.
# Q75: 为了便宜,你会特意避开华尔街?(To avoid overpricing, do you intentionally avoid Wall Street?)
段永平:
我买公司的时候,有个很大的鉴别因素就是,这家公司的行为,跟华尔街对它的影响有多大关联度,关联度越大,我买的机会就越低。华尔街永远是对的,它代表不同人的想法。但是你要知道自己在干什么,听华尔街的,你就乱了。就像我当时买网易,能在那个价格买到那么多量,因为纳斯达克有个规定,一块钱以下的股票超过多少时间就会下市,很多人害怕下市,在一块钱以下就卖了。我为什么不怕呢?我买它,跟它上不上市无关,它价格低于价值,我就会买。步步高就没有上过市,但我因此就把公司卖了,这没道理啊,很荒唐,我创立公司后只是因为它不上市就卖了,那我开公司干嘛?我认真研究了网易,发现它股价在0.8美元的时候,公司每股还有2块多现金,面临一个官司,可能被摘牌,有些不确定性。我咨询了一些法律界人士,问类似官司最可能的结果是什么,得到的结论是,后果不会很严重,因为他们的错误不是特别离谱。很重要的是,这家公司在运营上没有大问题。做足功课后,我基本上把我能动用的钱全部动用了,去买它的股票。我敢大量买入网易股票,最重要的是对企业花了足够的工夫,对公司、产品都有深刻了解。投资不在乎失掉一个机会,而是千万不要抓错一个机会。在投资对象价值大于价格时出手,这不叫大胆,而是理性。花5元钱去买10元的东西,能说是大胆吗?很多人在这个时候缺乏的是理性,而不是胆量。观点对不对取决于事实,而不是多少人或什么人和你观点一样。投资最重要的是要有独立思考的能力,要能够理性思考。
Duan Yongping:
When evaluating a company, one key factor is its dependence on Wall Street. The more influenced it is by Wall Street, the less likely I’ll invest. Wall Street is always right — it represents diverse opinions. But you must know what you’re doing. Following Wall Street blindly causes chaos. Take my purchase of NetEase as an example: I bought heavily when its stock dropped below $1 (Nasdaq rules risk delisting). Many panicked and sold; I didn’t care about listing status — I only cared if the price was below intrinsic value. BBK never listed, but selling it just because it didn’t go public would be absurd. I studied NetEase thoroughly: At $0.8/share, it had over $2 in cash per share, faced litigation risks, but legal experts said the case wasn’t severe. Most importantly, the business itself was sound. After due diligence, I invested all available funds. Investing isn’t about boldness but rationality. Buying a $10 item for $5 isn’t brave — it’s logical. Whether an idea is correct depends on facts, not popularity. The core of investing is independent thinking and rational judgment.
# Q76: 你会选择进入市场的时机吗?(Do you time the market?)
段永平:
我投资不关注大盘,大盘对短线有影响,长线没影响。大盘我不懂,巴菲特都看不懂,凭什么我会。任何想市场,想时机的做法,可能都是错误的。买股票,和这个股票曾经到过什么价是没关系的,所谓IPO价格的一半就是便宜的说法,没什么道理。我关注长期,看不懂的不碰。我看生意,只关注个股。你说某只股票贵,how do you know?站在现在看10年前,估计什么都是贵的。你站在10年后看现在,能看懂而且便宜的公司,买就行了。从5年、10年的角度看,宏观的东西对公司的影响要比想象的小得多。多数人的问题是:算得太多而想的太少。拿点小钱试试没啥不可,但你想试的是什么?市场的走势。很多人管他们自己叫投资,我却说他们只是for fun,他们很在乎别人满不满意这家公司,真正的投资者绝对是“目中无人”的,脑子里盯的就是这个企业,他不看周围有没有人买,他最好希望别人都不买。“会卖的是师傅”是交易思维。
Duan Yongping:
I ignore market timing — Buffett himself doesn’t understand it, so why should I? Trying to time markets or follow IPO price rules (e.g., “half IPO price = cheap”) is flawed. Focus on long-term business value. If a company makes sense now, buy it regardless of past prices. Looking back 10 years, everything seems expensive; looking forward 10 years, few companies will matter. Most people calculate too much and think too little. Small bets for fun are fine, but true investors care only about the business itself, not others’ opinions. Those who obsess over selling timing think like traders, not investors.
# Q77: 什么时候该卖出股票?(When to sell stocks?)
段永平:
我也不知道啥时候卖好。当我买一只股票时,一定会有个买的理由,同时也要看到负面的东西。当买的理由消失了,或重要的负面东西增加到我不能接受的时候,我就会离场。理性面对市场波动,仔细地检查每一个自己的投资理由及其变化是非常重要的。买的时候认为至少值得价钱,到了以后应该很认真地再研究一下。太贵了,有时也会成为离场的理由。一般来讲,“市场形势”很好时,大概就是卖股票的时候了。不过,如果真是特别好的公司,稍微贵一点未必应该卖,不然往往买不回来,机会成本大。我卖的都是因为对公司还不够了解。创维我们赚到不错利润,是因为不太好卖,涨的还挺快。我们买创维时,创维的市值好像还不到20亿,也可能20亿多一点,不太记得了,我怎么想都觉得便宜,就买了。我们是买到差一万股到5%的时候停的。因为再买就要公告了,所以很想在公告前和黄宏生沟通一下,怕人家以为我要去抢人家那一亩三分地。结果当时由于不太方便,我们就没有再买。后来才和黄老板通了个电话,道个谢,问个好。对创维而言,我并没有一个很清楚的到底值多少钱的概念,对他们现在的业务情况了解的也不细,所以涨上来以后就一直在陆陆续续减持。当达到基本目标价以后,对其价值的判断还是挺重要的。比如,我对网易后来的发展花了很多时间,不然,没可能大部分拿到120-140倍才卖,0.8美元买网易股票的不单是我一个人,但坚持持有到100美元的就不多。
Duan Yongping:
I’m unsure when to sell, but I sell when my original thesis changes or negative factors become unacceptable. Regularly re-evaluate your investment logic — selling at the right time is critical. High prices can justify exiting, but for truly great companies, slight overvaluation shouldn’t prompt selling — you might never get them back. I sold Createlink (Skyworth) because I didn’t fully understand it, despite good returns. When buying Skyworth at ~$200M market cap, I felt it was cheap and bought until near 5% ownership. I paused before disclosure requirements and later sold gradually as prices rose. For NetEase, my deep understanding let me hold until 120–140x returns. Few others held through the journey — most sold early.
# Q78: 持有还是卖出,是否还要考虑时间成本?(Does time value matter in holding/selling?)
段永平:
股票或公司是有时间价值的,这就是“折现”的魅力。比如我觉得苹果早晚是1000块的股票,但可能需要3年,如果今天有人愿意800块买,我可能就愿意卖了。但如果当年我觉得,网易在10年以内是个50块以上甚至100块的股票,如果有人出10块钱买,即便当时市值是5块,我也是不肯卖的。未来现金流的“折现”,你把“折现”两字忽略掉那意思就完全不一样了。比如,我告诉你苹果有一天会到每股10万块,但要一万年,你买不?我的判断标准就是价值。我最早买网易大概平均价在1块左右,大部分卖的价钱大约在30-35左右。以前网易每一次到目标后,我都认真重新评估一次。在持有的这8年到9年当中,我可能每天都会被卖价所诱惑,我就是用这个道理抵抗住诱惑的。其实中间也买卖过一些,但是很小一部分。我卖的理由是需要换GE和Yahoo。我会一直保留一些网易的股票的。万科到了基本价以后,没有重新评估就卖了,少赚了很多。股票掉的时候,也是一个动力去重新评估自己持有的股票,看看买的理由是不是有变化,比如买过UNG,认真看过后发现买错了,就斩仓了,不然的话,留到今天要多亏几千万。
Duan Yongping:
Time value matters — that’s the power of discounting future cash flows. For example, if Apple will eventually hit $1000/share in 3 years, I might sell at $800. But if NetEase could be $50+ in 10 years, I’d hold even at $5/share. Ignoring time value distorts logic. Telling someone Apple will hit $100K/share in 10K years is meaningless. My standard is always business value. I bought NetEase at ~$1/share and sold most at $30–35. Each time it hit a target, I reevaluated. Over 8–9 years, daily price temptations were resisted by sticking to fundamentals. I did rebalance small portions into GE/Yahoo. Selling万科 too early without reevaluation cost gains. Price drops should trigger reassessment — I cut UNG losses after realizing my mistake, avoiding deeper losses.
# Q79: 卖比买更难,会卖的是师傅。(Selling is harder than buying.)
段永平:
所谓价值投资者的买卖,都是和价值有关,和成本是无关的。无论什么时候,卖都不要和买的成本联系起来。该卖的理由可能有很多,唯一不该用的就是“我已经赚钱了”。不然,很容易把好不容易找到的好公司,在便宜的价钱就卖了,也会在亏钱时,该卖的不卖。买也一样,买的理由可以有很多,但这只股票曾经到过什么价位,最好不要作为你买的理由。会卖的是师傅,骨子里实际上考虑的是市场价和成本之间的关系,想这么做的人,关注的是市场对这个股票的态度,而不是专注在企业的生意上。真正理解的公司,买和卖的决定,其实是差不多难度的。比如,我曾赚过松下股票的钱,7块钱买的,涨到20多块卖了,放了大概有两三年的时间。因为我是做这行,我做企业的很多理念来自于松下,我也拜访过他们公司,也知道他们的缺点和优点,觉得这个公司不可能再低于7块了,而20块让我觉得可买可不买、可卖可不卖。所以,你做的投资,都跟你过去的经历有很大关系,跟你能搞懂的东西有很大关系。你的判断跟市场主流判断没有关系,两者可能有很大的时间差。我判断的是它的未来,而市场是要等企业情况好了才会把价格体现出来。
Duan Yongping:
Value investors act based on business value, not cost basis. Never sell just because you’ve made gains — this often leads to premature exits from great companies. Similarly, don’t hold losers due to sunk costs. The only valid reason to buy/sell is value — past prices shouldn’t influence decisions. Those who obsess over selling timing focus on market sentiment, not fundamentals. For truly understood companies, buying and selling are equally difficult. Take my Panasonic trade: Bought at $7, sold at $20+ after 2–3 years. As an entrepreneur, I deeply understood its strengths/weaknesses. Its price couldn’t drop below $7, but at $20+, I was neutral. All investments reflect personal experience and understanding. Market opinions lag reality. I focus on long-term business outcomes, not short-term fluctuations.
# Q80: 巴菲特说,永远不用考虑卖出一家真正伟大的公司。(Buffett says never sell a great company.)
段永平:
他确实说过,可他老人家到现在为止,没卖过的公司也是极少的。我觉得巴菲特说这话的潜台词是,对于伟大的公司,市场往往不会给一个疯狂的价钱,如果你仅仅是因为有一点点高估就卖出,可能会失去买回来的机会。而且,在美国,卖出要交很高的税,不合算。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett says this, but he’s rarely held a stock forever. His point is that great companies are seldom overvalued enough to justify selling. Selling even slightly undervalued great companies risks missing future gains. In the U.S., capital gains taxes make frequent selling inefficient.
# Q81: 你怎么看巴菲特?(What’s your view on Buffett?)
段永平:
老巴是一个很好的人,他是发自内心的对人好,对人诚恳。他很睿智,任何复杂的问题,他一两句话就说到本质了。这么睿智,这么成功,又对人这么好,中国企业家里我基本没见过这样的,美国企业家里也极少。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett is a genuinely kind and sincere person. He cuts through complexity with simple truths. Such wisdom, success, and humility are rare — in China or the U.S.
# Q82: 你跟巴菲特午餐,最让你印象深刻的是什么?(What impressed you most about Buffett?)
段永平:
巴菲特离开的时候,他的司机开了一辆特别像卡车的车过来,他老人家身手矫健的爬了进去,这让我印象非常深刻。我虽然知道他不是个奢侈的人,但是也没想他开这种车来。他家我也去过,不是豪宅,只是一个很普通的房子。见完他回去,我太太也这么对我讲:“你要学的东西还很多。”我说,对啊,确实是这样。我们见到有钱人很多,但是见过他这种平实的人很少。我回国之后,看到一些稍微有点钱的人非常飞扬跋扈,包括吃饭,对服务员的态度,差异都非常大。巴菲特对服务员的态度非常好,这不是做给我看的,他不需要做给我看。这么成就的人,这么谦虚、平实、和蔼。他的幽默我们不一定可以学会,但是谦虚总可以学得会。
Duan Yongping:
When Buffett left, his driver arrived in a pickup truck, and Buffett climbed in effortlessly. I knew he wasn’t flashy, but never expected such simplicity. His house is modest. After meeting him, my wife said, “You have much to learn.” She’s right. We meet many rich people, but few match Buffett’s humility. Back in China, some wealthy individuals act arrogantly — Buffett treats waiters with genuine respect, not for show. His humor may be hard to mimic, but humility is learnable.
# Q83: 有时发现一个好目标,手里没钱怎么办?(What if you find a great opportunity but have no cash?)
段永平:
我问巴菲特一些其他问题时,他间接回答了这个问题。我问巴菲特,在投资中不可以做的事情是什么,他告诉我说:不做空,不借钱,最重要的是不要做不懂的东西。他说,他只希望富一次,如果借钱,可能会变成两次、三次富有了,然后又穷回去了。他这话的意思是要少犯错。这些年,我在投资里亏掉的美金数以亿计,每一笔都是违背老巴教导的情况下亏的,而赚到的大钱也都是在自己真正懂的地方赚的。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett answered this indirectly. I asked, “What must you never do in investing?” He replied: No shorting, no leverage, and no investing in what you don’t understand. He said he wants to get rich once — using debt might multiply wealth but lead to ruin. Every dollar I lost came from breaking these rules; every gain came from areas I truly understood.
# Q84: 你主张不贷款,不用margin,错过了机会怎么办?(No leverage means missing opportunities?)
段永平:
贷款和用margin,赚的时候快,赔的时候更快。常在河边走,哪能不湿鞋,湿一回鞋就湿一辈子,为什么要冒这个险呢?有些机会总是要错过的,只要保证抓住的是对的,就足够了。我们过去的大部分竞争对手都消失了,我们还健在,道理也许就在此。
Duan Yongping:
Leverage accelerates both gains and losses. One mistake ruins you — why take that risk? Missing opportunities is okay; capturing key ones is enough. Most competitors are gone; our survival proves the value of caution.
# Q85: 巴菲特犯过什么错吗?(Has Buffett ever made mistakes?)
段永平:
有。他说他犯了很多错误,比如说10多年投资一家公司,本来只值4个亿,但他用了40亿。现在这家公司的价值是零,已经破产了。他说,投资犯错不可怕,最重要的是少犯错,而且也不是说某一个项目做得漂亮就行。投资就像打高尔夫,要是每一个都打得很好,那就不好玩了。高尔夫主要是要看整个成绩,而不是看某一个部分。大部分人都更关注为什么你这一杆打得这么好,其实高尔夫是用全场来计算成绩的。我们有时候过于注重某个案子的成败,往往忽略了整体的东西。
Duan Yongping:
Yes. Buffett once overpaid $400M for a $40M business — it went bankrupt. Mistakes are inevitable, but minimizing them matters. Investing is like golf — total score counts, not individual strokes. Most focus on single wins, but long-term performance is what matters.
# Q86: 有时候有钱,找不到项目,怎么办?你有问过巴菲特,空仓的时候该怎么办吗?(What to do when you have cash but no good investments?)
段永平:
这个问题在没见到他的时候,我就想清楚了,投资跟你空仓和满仓没有关系。空仓的时候,也不能买你不懂的股票,空仓就是闲着。我们发现,最难的事情是什么都不做。巴菲特说,他在有钱的时候,犯的错误最多。空仓是件困难的事情,手里拿着很多钱的时候,确实容易犯错误。其实没有人是真正空仓的。空仓这个概念我不懂,是个投机的说法。巴菲特几乎没有空仓,可能有过一次,第一只基金结束的时候。
Duan Yongping:
I figured this out before meeting Buffett. Investing isn’t about full or empty pockets — you must never buy what you don’t understand. Idle cash is hardest to manage — Buffett said he made most mistakes when holding cash. True investors rarely stay fully “empty-handed.” The idea of being “cash-only” feels speculative. Buffett was rarely empty-handed, except once when closing his first fund.
# Q87: 1969年,巴菲特认为市场估值太高宣布解散公司“退休”,这一休息就是5年。(In 1969, Buffett shut down his fund, saying the market was overvalued. He retired for 5 years.)
段永平:
如果你认为该减少一些的话,为什么不是全部(减掉)呢?如果你觉得你拥有的公司太贵了,你就该都卖了,除非留点做纪念,不然留一部分赌市场再涨一点吗?老巴当年不干了,是因为实在找不到自己敢买的公司,拿着大家的钱不舒服,所以就干脆解散了。
Duan Yongping:
If you think the market is overvalued, why reduce only partially? If your holdings feel expensive, sell all — unless keeping some as souvenirs. Buffett quit because he couldn’t find companies he felt comfortable investing in. Holding other people’s money without conviction? Better to shut down.
# Q88: 你跟巴菲特见面,除了聊投资,还聊了什么?(What did you talk about with Buffett besides investing?)
段永平:
我们还会聊到高尔夫、桥牌和女朋友,还有我们公司的情况。我们公司这么多年做的也不错,但是我们不想上市,我觉得上市对我们不好。巴菲特提到,他认识的一位企业家,宁愿自己的身家缩水一半也要让企业退市。这对我来说很震撼,对于上市是否是一个错误,他没有肯定或者否定,但是从很侧面的角度给了我很大的肯定。
Duan Yongping:
We talked about golf, bridge, and even his personal life. Our company has done well without listing — I believe going public would harm us. Buffett mentioned an entrepreneur who voluntarily cut his net worth by half to delist. That shocked me — it indirectly confirmed that staying private isn’t a mistake.
# Q89: 跟巴菲特聊完天之后,你采取了什么投资行动?(What investment actions did you take after meeting Buffett?)
段永平:
我曾经买过两只航空股,我想象这么多人坐飞机,应该是很有空间的。但是巴菲特却说,这是个tough business(困难的生意)。后来,我自己明白了,“航空业没有差异化,只能打价格战。”我卖出了其中一只,避免了不少于5000万美元的损失。因为航空公司的产品难以做到差异化,没办法赚到钱,长期来讲,没有投资价值。这是巴菲特教我的,省了我好多钱。
Duan Yongping:
I bought two airline stocks, assuming high demand would make them profitable. Buffett disagreed — he called aviation a “tough business.” Later, I realized airlines lack differentiation, trapped in price wars. Selling one saved me $50M+. Airlines rarely create long-term value — Buffett’s lesson here was priceless.
# Q90: 但你今年4月还是买了达美航空,为什么?(Why did you buy Delta Airlines in April 2020?)
段永平:
从买入=持有或者持有=买入的角度看,我当时买入航空公司,其实等于卖了苹果去买入航空公司,虽然我是用最近多出来的现金。从10年或更长的角度看,似乎不是一个好的决策。但好奇使然,我还是认真看了看老巴买的原因,似乎也觉得蛮有道理,所以买了1%的Dal(达美航空),纯属好玩。可能疫情之下,有点时间看看。和上次重组以前比,现在几大航空公司实际上已经是有点准垄断了,所以在可见的未来,商业模式也还是不错的。航空港的投资很大,新的竞争对手很难进入。另外,买入也表达一下我对人类战胜病毒的信心。
Duan Yongping:
By the “buying = holding” logic, buying airlines meant selling Apple shares — but I used new cash. Long-term, it wasn’t ideal. Curiosity drove me — Buffett’s reasoning made sense. I bought 1% of Delta (DAL), mostly for fun during the pandemic. Airlines now have quasi-monopolies (high barriers), and my purchase expressed confidence in post-pandemic recovery.
# Q91: 有人说,这是跟着巴菲特“抄作业”,抄错了?(Some say buying airlines was copying Buffett’s homework — did you get it wrong?)
段永平:
我们要有自己的独立思考的能力,不是老巴买什么就简单跟进的意思,不然就已经掉在IBM的坑里了。事实上,老巴买了IBM之后的这些年,我一直想看懂IBM,但看来看去,都觉得老巴也是可能会犯错的。但是,不管老巴干什么,都值得我关注一下,至少好奇一下为什么老巴会做这件事情。航空公司当时看确实有点意思,这个生意已经不再是以前那个完全靠价格竞争、没有差异化的生意了。如果没有这次疫情,这几家大的航空公司应该会是非常赚钱的。这次疫情似乎像是个降维打击,如果认为疫情早晚会过去,某些航空公司一定能够挺过去的话,目前显然是个买入的机会。至于谁能挺过去,那就要靠自己搞明白了,搞不明白最好离的远远的!
Duan Yongping:
Independent thinking matters — blind following leads to traps (e.g., IBM). Buffett himself makes mistakes, but his actions always deserve scrutiny. Airlines had evolved pre-pandemic — quasi-monopolies with pricing power. The virus was a “dimensional strike,” but if you believe recovery is certain, current prices are opportunities. But identifying survivors requires deep understanding — if unsure, stay away!
# Q92: 巴菲特买了4只航空股,你为什么挑了达美?(Buffett bought 4 airlines. Why did you pick Delta?)
段永平:
老巴就是四家都买,但Luv和Dal买的多一些。这四家还是有一点点差别的。西南似乎最健康,但上升空间最小。Dal企业文化也还不错,安全性也差不多。
Duan Yongping:
Buffett bought all four, but focused more on Southwest (LUV) and Delta (DAL). Southwest seemed healthiest but had least upside. DAL’s culture was decent, safety margins acceptable.
# Q93: 巴菲特表态卖出航空股之后,你公开说有些难以理解。(You publicly questioned Buffett’s airline sell-off.)
段永平:
我(当时)对老巴清空航空公司是有点意外的,因为他刚刚说过他不会卖航空公司!这时候卖就等于把粉丝套进去了,有点难以理解。感觉他在说不卖的时候其实已经决定要卖了,而且还是先把达美和西南卖到10%以下,为后面进一步减持方便而准备,也算活久见了。我对老巴为什么卖航空公司没有兴趣,我只是对他这种卖法感到不舒服而已。刚刚对媒体说完不卖接着马上就卖了,而且是用了点技巧去卖的。而且他(当时)也没解释为什么说不卖又卖了的原因。他只是解释了为什么卖的原因,而且有些原因在他买之前就一直存在的,这也是费解的地方。当然,这个世界有很多难以理解的事情,多一件也不是个问题。我们自己也确实买了一些达美,起因也是因为老巴买了后吸引了我的注意力。
Duan Yongping:
I was surprised when Buffett suddenly sold all airlines — he’d just said he wouldn’t! Selling to below 10% ownership first felt like preparation for full exit. I didn’t question his reasons, just his execution — going from “no sales” to immediate selling? Uncomfortable. He explained why to sell but not why he changed his mind. Some rationales existed pre-purchase. The world’s full of mysteries — adding one more doesn’t matter. My own DAL purchase was influenced by Buffett’s initial move.
# Q94: 你后来理解巴菲特为什么卖了吗?(Did you later understand Buffett’s airline sell-off?)
段永平:
我觉得老巴可能对病毒非常悲观,毕竟没人面对过这种情况。我以前从来没见过老巴干或说过任何逻辑不通的事情,这次感觉有那么一点点,而且这次还感觉到老巴有一点点恐慌,真是不容易。逻辑上,一开始确实想不明白他为什么是用这个办法卖的。我目前能够想到的唯一符合逻辑,大概就是,在他说不卖时,他是认为疫情没什么了不起,因为美国整个政府似乎也是这么认为的。结果事情变化太快,有点吓着了。(美股)熔断是3/9,12,16,18号,他接受采访是3/10号(13号播出),加州最早开始Shelter in place(政府要求人们呆在家里)。9号时,他可能没意识到那么严重。我觉得,大概率他老人家在那个礼拜里改变了主意,做出了卖掉航空公司的决定。从几次熔断他都完全没有加仓也可以看出这点,老巴手里可是拿着大把现金啊。我完全能理解他厌恶风险,所以走为上的想法,因为航空公司确实有风险,我也是抱着小赌怡情的态度买了一点点,而且我是基于我自己对疫情的理解,认为航空公司应该可以很快恢复一定的客流,不至于破产。老巴多次证明最后他都是对的,但老巴确实也犯过错误,未来几年会很有趣哈。无论如何,我依然很尊重他老人家!
Duan Yongping:
Buffett likely underestimated the pandemic — no one faced such a crisis before. His panic felt unusual but understandable. Market crashes (March 9/12/16/18) might have shifted his view — he didn’t add to positions despite huge cash reserves. I accepted the risk with small bets, believing airlines would recover. Buffett was right more often than not — yet even legends can err. Respect remains.
# Q95: 你起初还说不会卖出,但最终选择卖出,当时是没看懂,还是看错了?(You initially held airlines, but eventually sold. Was it misunderstanding or miscalculation?)
段永平:
我持有达美的成本在22左右,本来想,亏赚无所谓了,拿到年底再说。我起初依然认为,如果疫情是个会不太长时间能过去的问题的话,活下来的航空公司是有很大机会的。我管的所有投资中,大概有1-2%投在达美上了,我依然觉得这些钱不会打水漂,一年内就应该能见到结果了。但我难得因为投资睡不好觉,拿着航空公司确实不踏实,总有想不透的东西。尊重老巴得想法,所以,我也找机会撤了。不是看不懂,是看到了没必要的风险。我的观点没变,觉得达美和西南是最有机会活下来的航空公司,但没人知道最后疫情会导致人们的消费习惯变化的趋势。我对找到办法对付疫情是乐观的,但无法知道什么时候以及最后会用什么方式来结束或共存。持有航空公司难受的地方是,不知道时间到底站在哪一边。持有苹果的感觉完全不一样,股价怎么掉都不会介意。还好我的大部位是苹果而不是航空公司。好吧,小赌怡情,愿赌服输!
Duan Yongping:
My entry cost for Delta was ~$22. I planned to hold through 2020 — if the pandemic resolved quickly, surviving airlines had chances. 1-2% of my portfolio was in DAL — still believed it wouldn’t go to zero. But sleepless nights came — not from misunderstanding, but unnecessary risk. I respect Buffett’s pivot, so I exited gradually. Delta and Southwest were top survivors, but pandemic-driven behavior shifts remain unpredictable. Apple? No stress — even if prices drop, conviction holds. Glad my main position wasn’t airlines.
# Q96: 巴菲特说,他卖出航空公司,是因为认错了,他的评估出现了错误。买入的时候,按照他的计算,买的很值。后来事情的发展证明,自己判断错了,航空公司的生意发生了巨大的变化。(Buffett admitted selling airlines was a mistake.)
段永平:
是的,我就是看完这段后也决定跟卖了。我同意老巴的观点,这个生意变了。不过,老巴动作快,我这次慢半拍,现在才卖了一半,估计还要一个多月才能卖完。
Duan Yongping:
Yes — I followed suit after reading his explanation. The airline business changed structurally. Buffett acted fast; I lagged, selling half now. Full exit may take another month.
# Q97: 既然已经发现错了,为什么不一次卖掉?巴菲特说,如果不想持有100%,就连1%都不该持有。(Why not sell all at once? Buffett said if you don’t want 100%, don’t hold 1%)
段永平:
刚开始决定卖的时候,似乎很多人都在卖,所以我决定等一等。确实量大了一些,想跑也跑不掉,让溃逃的先跑,我慢一点没关系。发现错了,是表明这不是我想长期持有的公司,不符合“商业模式和企业文化都很好”的标准,要找机会离开。不过,撤退也不是溃逃,估计达美也不至于马上破产,所以每天卖一点应该没大问题。计划下次出财报前基本清理出场。到目前为止运气还不错,居然还略有盈利。
Duan Yongping:
When selling began, panic selling was rampant — I waited. Big positions can’t be dumped overnight. Exiting isn’t fleeing — Delta won’t go bankrupt soon. I’ll clear holdings before next earnings. So far, slight profit remains.
# Q98: 后来航空股又涨了不少,应该继续持有吗?(Airlines rebounded — should you hold?)
段永平:
新冠传染性比SARS要厉害,似乎短期内也不会像SARS那样消失,而且以后出现这种病毒的频率是有可能增加的。如果不到10年来一次,航空公司这种生意模式会非常辛苦。
Duan Yongping:
Covid-19 is more persistent than SARS. Recurring outbreaks could strain airline economics — survival gets harder without a 10-year reprieve.
# Q99: 你想把航空股换什么?(What did you swap the airline stocks for?)
段永平:
决定换点brk(伯克希尔哈撒韦)。另外,我还一直蛮喜欢Disney,前段时间终于有机会买了一些,这也算是收藏伟大公司的一点点进展哈。老巴说,他是个伟大公司的收藏者。我觉得Disney应该是个可以被收藏的伟大公司。
Duan Yongping:
I rotated into Berkshire (BRK) and added Disney (DIS) — a step toward collecting great companies. Buffett called himself a collector of great businesses. Disney fits that category.
# Q100: 大家都说你是中国巴菲特,你跟巴菲特的理念有差别吗?(Do your investment principles differ from Buffett’s?)
段永平:
我们骨子里的东西是一致的,差别无非是水平。这么多年,他对投资的理解,包括在变化的时候信念的坚定度比我更强,包括对宏观形势的判断、对企业的理解,他都比我好。
Duan Yongping:
Our core principles align — differences lie in depth. Buffett’s resilience during uncertainty and macro judgment surpass mine. He understands businesses better. But the foundation is shared: buying companies, not stocks.
# Q101: 你跟巴菲特学到的最重要的东西是什么?(Most important lesson from Buffett?)
段永平:
我在电子邮件里说,我跟他学到的最重要的东西是:买股票就像买一个公司的一部分,买股票就要长期持有。巴菲特回信说:“你说的就是我当年跟本杰明·格雷厄姆学的,正是这个理念改变了我的看法,影响了我的一生。”我认为,学巴菲特最重要的是学他不做什么。绝大多数人学的是他在做什么 — 那是无法复制的,因为每个人的能力圈不同。巴菲特说,知道自己能力圈有多大,比能力圈有多大要重要的多。
Duan Yongping:
The key lesson: Buy stocks as business ownership, hold long-term. Buffett replied, “That’s Graham’s teaching that changed my life.” Learning Buffett means studying what he doesn’t do — not what he does. Your circle of competence defines you, not its size. Buffett emphasized knowing its boundaries — that’s more critical than the boundary itself.
# Q102: 如果巴菲特要买你的公司,你卖吗?(Would you sell your company to Buffett?)
段永平:
我不卖,因为价格高了对不起巴菲特,低了对不起我们的股东。经营企业比投资容易。
Duan Yongping:
I wouldn’t sell — overpricing would disrespect Buffett; underpricing would betray shareholders. Running businesses feels simpler than investing.
# Q103: 经营企业和做投资,哪个更难?(Which is harder: entrepreneurship or investing?)
段永平:
买股票就是买公司,两者没什么本质差别。但我个人认为,经营企业还是要比投资容易些。经营企业是在自己熟悉的领域,犯错的机会小。而投资总是需要面临很多新的东西和不确定性,而且投资人会非常容易变成投机者,去冒不该冒的风险。
Duan Yongping:
Buying stocks = buying companies — no fundamental difference. Yet, entrepreneurship feels easier — it’s within your known territory. Investing constantly faces new uncertainties, pushing investors into speculation easily.
# Q104: 企业家做投资,是否更有优势?(Do entrepreneurs have an investing edge?)
段永平:
做过企业家的人,本来有一个优势,更容易看懂公司,更容易知道自己的能力圈在哪里。但我认识的很多企业家,对股市并没有任何认,大多数人是不碰股市的,因为他们认为自己不懂。不懂不碰就是好的投资者,哪怕一点都不碰也是对的。
Duan Yongping:
Entrepreneurs have an edge — business intuition. But most avoid stocks, admitting they don’t understand markets. Staying out of what you don’t grasp makes them good investors, paradoxically.
# Q105: 什么样的人适合做投资?(Who is suited for investing?)
段永平:
其实什么人都可以做投资,只要你明白自己买的是什么,价值在哪里。我自己抓住的机会,也好像和学历没什么必然联系。比如,我们能在网易上赚到100多倍,是因为我在做小霸王时就有了对游戏的理解。我当时敢重手买GE,是因为跟踪GE文化多年。投资的原则太简单,简单的东西往往最难。统计上,80-90%的股民赔钱,因为总想赚快钱。
Duan Yongping:
Anyone can invest if they truly understand the business. My NetEase win came from gaming experience at Xiaobawang, not academics. GE purchase was based on decade-long cultural observation. The principle — buy companies, not stocks — is simple yet hardest to execute. 80-90% lose money chasing quick gains.
# Q106: 刚毕业的学生是否不适合直接进入投资领域?(Should new graduates avoid investing?)
段永平:
也没啥不可,但对企业的理解自然会弱些。但只要你热爱你干的事情,又知道自己的弱点,慢慢学习总是会明白的。我唯一可以保证的是,你肯定会犯错误的。
Duan Yongping:
New graduates can start, but business intuition is weak. Love your work, acknowledge weaknesses, learn patiently. One certainty? You’ll make mistakes — just survive them.